Web3 App Development Made Easy with Thirdweb

GM GM. Welcome to what's going to be another great episode of DevNTell. So if you didn't know, DevNTell is a 30-minute podcast held every week, allowing founders, hackers, and anyone in between an opportunity to come on the show and showcase what they've built. And today, I am ecstatic to welcome Joseph Ortega, who's a solutions engineer at Thirdweb. So if you didn't know, Thirdweb is the best full-stack open-source development platform for Web3 apps and games. So if you stick around for today's episode, you'll see Joseph give us an overview of Thirdweb and show us how we can use it to build the best Web3 experiences. All right, let's get into it. But first, a word from our sponsor.

GM GM. Welcome to the show, Joe. Pleasure to have you on, man.

Oh, thanks for having me, Narb. Thank you very much. GM GM, my friend.

Yeah, no problem, no problem. Yeah, we all know folks watching the show, very developer-heavy. I'm sure they know Thirdweb, at least at the surface level, but you guys have been cooking, you got a lot of stuff going on. So it's great to have you on to kind of give us the latest and greatest of what's going on.

Yeah, man. You know, one of our tenets is we're always shipping, right? So as the developers who look at our GitHub and our repos know, things are always changing, always have these blogs out. So happy to come out to these kinds of events and talks and showcase what's new with Thirdweb, right? We've gone through a lot of changes over the past year or so, and so for any folks who might have tried us in the past, we might look totally different to you now. Still the same great features, but just expanded. So happy to have these talks here.

Shippers be shipping. And that's just the way. Yeah, amazing, man. Yeah, I guess before we get into all of that, for people who aren't familiar with yourself, would you like to give a brief introduction?

Yeah, sure. So I'm Joe. I'm a solutions engineer here at Thirdweb. Been here for a little over a year now, about a year and a half. Started here with Thirdweb actually creating content for Thirdweb before I was actually a full-fledged employee. So I was a builder using Thirdweb to create my own projects, my own meme coins, my own meme projects, and then I would just tell the world on how they can do what I did with Thirdweb. So from that, I actually got noticed, and Thirdweb said, "Hey, you want to come join the team?" So here I am, right? Which was really, really cool and interesting. A big shift from before where I used to work at some Fortune 500 companies like General Motors as a mobile app developer. So went from that, tried content creation for a little bit, which was cool, which led me into Web3 and Thirdweb. So that's kind of how I got started in my journey, and I'm excited to be here, man.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're right on the bleeding edge of tech, so you made the right choice. And yeah, exactly. Like building in public, like a lot of people don't realize how powerful of a self-marketing tool that is. Like a lot of people from Developer DAO, for example, they've landed their dream jobs just because they were doing very much what you did, just sharing content, posting it on socials, and these companies are always looking, right? It's like if you know what you're doing and you're building good content, like they usually reach out. So just a heads up.

Absolutely. I mean, social's your resume now, man.

Indeed, indeed. Yeah, good GitHub, good X account and whatnot does wonders. And I guess in terms of you becoming interested in tech in general, like were you always, did you kind of know from early on that tech was where you wanted to land, or did you kind of have a tangent kind of journey before you landed here? Just interested.

Yeah, yeah. So when I was a kid, I've always, you know, I was always playing games, video games. Your traditional stay indoors instead of playing out football, I'd be on my Game Boy, right? Or my GameCube. And so from a young age, I was like, hey, I'm probably going to try and create video games. So I was always in the tech sphere. After college, I actually dabbled a little bit in culinary arts. Total shift, still within that creative side of it though. And then finally just landed in mobile development, right? So I was making mobile apps, which was kind of my really foray into the deep dive of tech, right? So yeah, like from a young age, always wanted, always knew I wanted to be in tech, had my little experiment in college with culinary arts. I actually worked at a few restaurants and then transferred over to full-time for tech once I graduated with a CS degree. So yeah.

Awesome, man. Yeah, it's kind of rare to see a mobile dev in Web3, at least like a lot of folks. Yeah, right? Do you specialize in one OS or the other, or well-rounded?

Yeah, so I actually got my start with Android specifically, and then I branched out into native iOS apps. And towards the end of my career at General Motors, I started learning things like Flutter for kind of supporting both at the same time, right? Versus really diving in. And I think what's funny is Web3 is very much that same principle, where instead of looking at a specific tech stack or specific technology, it actually allows you to combine all different platforms, right? Anyone can look into a blockchain, it's a public ledger. I don't have to be constrained to either web app or native mobile application, blockchain is accessible no matter where I am. So I think that's one of the things that drew me into it and the parallel that I saw between, which really helped ease that transition from a mobile dev into a Web3 dev, right?

Right, yeah, yeah, definitely. And I think you've made the right choice and landed in a great spot with Thirdweb. So I think this is a good segue point to get into all the great stuff you have prepared for us.

Yeah, absolutely. Let me go ahead and share my screen with you all today. Hello all, again, I am Joe from the solutions team here at Thirdweb, and we want to talk a little bit about Thirdweb, what we are, why you might need us in the world of Web3, right? It's very expansive, there's so many different things you can do and you can hook into so many public platforms, right? Public chains, you have public wallet systems that you guys can use, all of these different kind of integrations that can be confusing. You have a whole bunch of different providers, you have a whole bunch of different sources for these tools, and it can get messy in your code base in terms of maintaining, in terms of asking for support, right? Instead of 10 different providers, you might want only to go to a single provider. And so when we think about Thirdweb, we think about, we thought about, okay, what do people need to build in Web3, right? What are these common core toolings that individuals need across any project, whether you're doing NFTs, whether you're doing DeFi apps, whether you're doing SocialFi apps, whether you're doing things like gaming, right? There's a certain core set of tooling that everyone needs when building in Web3.

And so we thought about it and we said, okay, there's a few tenets, right? Everyone needs a way to connect their users, right? Whether it's through wallets, account systems, what have you. Either way, people need to be able to connect to your app. Another option is, hey, people need a way to transact, right? We understand about making transactions and we know that sometimes it can be a little bit messy. You have to specify gas, you have to specify how much you're going to send along with the transaction in accordance with gas, right? If you're sending a value, you have to specify things like your signature parameters, your RSV values. All of that gets very complicated and very messy, especially for new devs coming in, right? I myself, when I first started, I had no idea about any of that, right? So I was trying to figure out what's RSV, how come my transactions aren't sent correctly, what is this gas that keeps telling me it's failing because I run out of gas, yet it took it from my wallet, right? All of this gets very, very messy. And then finally, smart contracts. Smart contracts rule and govern your blockchain interactions. You guys want to make projects, you need a smart contract. You guys want to interact with a project, you're going to be interacting with a smart contract. So these are kind of some of the key areas that we found users really, really need in order to build any application in Web3, right? You need to be able to connect, you need to be able to interact, and you need to be able to create the ruleset for your applications. And so we came out with Thirdweb, right? What is it? We are a full-stack open-source development tool for building in Web3. And what does that mean? So that means that we have everything for your frontends, for your backends, for your on-chain interactions, and even on the infra layer.

So frontends mean anytime you need a wallet connect, anytime you have a user interacting with your applications, guess what, we have a full suite of systems and tools that you guys can use. So that means you can support things like EOA wallets, you can support social logins for that Web2 experience, you can do things like account abstraction to sponsor gas, you can do things like batching transactions, session key management, all through AA. Guess what, with 7702 coming out guys, if you are on the forefront of that EIP, that means native account abstraction. And so that means that guess what, support will come with Thirdweb on native account abstraction day one. That's something that we've worked tirelessly on, our engineers are actually super excited for this as it makes a whole bunch of things easier on our end as well. And so account abstraction evolves and we evolve with it, just another example of Thirdweb constantly shipping and being on the forefront of these tech stacks, right? And then we also have payment flows for our frontends, so users can actually go in, create very simple credit card transactions, really, really easy to do and I'll show you a little bit about that on our playground.

And so on our backend components, right? So we've talked about users logging in, what happens when a user clicks a button on your app, right? What actions start kicking off? Well, this is where our backend happens. This is where we have something called Thirdweb Engine that can go in and scale all your transactions. So users can go in and spam click those buttons and guess what, your app will handle it beautifully. No hiccups, Engine can automatically retry transactions, increase your nonce, increase your gas, all of this cool stuff. And you don't have to learn any new SDKs, it's all with a simple blockchain API endpoint. So if you know about REST requests, right? A simple HTTP request, guess what, you're already a Web3 dev. This is tooling from Web2 that we brought over to make it even easier and accessible for Web2 devs to develop in Web3.

And so we have our frontend, we have our backend and our on-chain aspect. Again, this is all the smart contract stuff, right? This is, I might not necessarily be the greatest Solidity dev, but guess what, Thirdweb has a whole suite of pre-built contracts. So this means if you guys want to do anything like NFT drops, if you guys want to do things like creating your own custom token, if you want to do voting systems or even a split contract payments, right? All of this can be done through some of our pre-builts. And if you are Solidity dev and you are great at making your own custom contracts, guess what, you can pull them into Thirdweb as well. Absolutely no barriers there, you can pull in your custom contracts, work with them in the Thirdweb environment. So that means your contracts are connected to all of our wallets, all of our indexer products, our backend APIs with Engine, all of that stuff. So we really do allow you to mix and match, be composable with our suite. You're never locked into only Thirdweb if you want to use Thirdweb and another tool suite, go for it. If you only want to use a piece of Thirdweb and another tool suite, go for it. This is really about providing the best developer experience for you all in our tool stack.

And of course, what powers all of this? Right, so we have this infra layer that is powering all of these three product suites. And so that means we have things like RPC Edge. This is our network of RPCs that if a user comes in, tries to submit a request on-chain and it doesn't go through, we have fallbacks. We can go ahead and route to another network. We have our indexer-like product, right? Called Insight. And so this is how you can read data from the blockchain, get that very on-time on-chain data. So really, really cool and powerful on this. And after that, we have something called Nebula, our AI agent, right? So this is how you guys can, again, everyone's looking at AI, everyone's looking at all of the cool things it can do while we sleep. And so Nebula is going to be how we talk about this, and we'll go ahead and do a brief overview on that here in a bit as well.

And so it's like, there's a lot of stuff. How can I, as a dev, go through and touch it and play with it? We actually have a website called our Thirdweb Playground. And so we'll actually be sharing this link as well, but I'm going to share my screen for this playground. And so you can see a couple of different things. So this playground is where any dev, any non-dev even, maybe you're on BD team, maybe you are just experimenting with some local stuff, right? You can absolutely come to this playground and see exactly what it looks like to touch our tooling, to mess around with our tools and play around with this. So this playground is going to be the spot for you to look at what it looks like developing with Thirdweb.

And of course, looks like my mouse just died one second.

Live demos, man. Always, always something. The curse. Yeah, yeah.

Oh man, let me try and find my, not prepared for this. One second.

All good, all good. Yeah, so folks, Thirdweb has built quite the suite of tools, and as Joe was saying, they have a bunch of pre-built smart contracts as well that you can literally just deploy with a click of a button. And a decent majority of those are also, they've gone through the smart contract audit as well, so they're audited contracts. So there's literally nothing to lose. You want to deploy a new NFT contract, you want to deploy a new ERC-20 token, or as Joe mentioned, deploy even your own custom smart contracts, all you got to do is go through their platform with a couple of clicks and you'll be on your way.

Absolutely, absolutely. All right, I got unplugged, no more battery issues here man. I used to love my wireless mouse but now, kind of makes me want wired again. Yeah, I feel you. Cool, so with our connect button, right? So this is on our playground. You don't need a credit card, you don't need an account to come in and play around with some of this stuff. This is absolutely free for you all to come in and play around with some of our stuff.

So again, we talked about our three main buckets: frontend, backend, on-chain. And so this playground lets you explore all of that. So for our frontend, we have things like our connect component. So you can do things like, hey, I want my users to be able to connect through email, maybe I want to add social auth like Twitch or even Line, Apple, right? And you can see here on the right how that's changing as I make these changes. Again, we support both social logins as well as existing EOAs. We actually have over 500 different EOAs. And so you might think, oh, well what about Phantom wallet? Cool, we have it. What about the Abstract Global Wallet, right? That's a pretty new one here. We have support for that as well. You can go in, come through this list and add and remove support for any of these wallets. And for you developers out there, you can actually look at the code snippet required to make this component itself, right? So here we can see things like, hey, I have Apple and Line, I've changed my mind, I don't want them. You can go ahead and modify it on the graphic component and see the updated code. You can do the same thing with EOAs, right? Hey, I don't want Coinbase, maybe I don't want Rabby but I want Trust. You can see all of these updates happening in your code. And then I can go ahead and just take this, copy it and throw it into my code base, right? And that way I already have a 100% working connect button.

So this means it's super, super easy to get up and running, and you've actually just created your very own login system, your very own account management system for any of your apps, right? This means your games, this means your web apps, this means your mobile apps. You've already defined something that would usually take three or four separate systems for account management, all within a couple clicks. Super cool and super handy. And again, you can do things like account abstraction here. So if I wanted to sponsor gas fees on behalf of my users, this means that I'm paying for that gas transaction, I can go ahead and toggle this and guess what, one line of code, three if you want to use Prettier, you can do just that. Account abstraction, specify what chain you want to sponsor gas for and do you want to sponsor gas, yes or no. Remember a lot of different features with AA, not just gas sponsorship, although it is the main feature. So it can absolutely have smart accounts if you turn this off, without sponsoring gas. That is totally an option for you again, super composable, super customizable to your use case.

All of this, guess what, you can do it headlessly. You don't need to use our components, these components are built for you to get up and running fast. But if you want to create a total custom UI experience, you can use our TypeScript SDK for Connect in order to create that custom UI and see exactly what it looks like. We have a page for you here in our playground. Again, along with the code and the preview for what it might look like in your environment. And so that's Connect, right? One of the cool things about Connect is that it includes payment flows. It includes something we call Universal Bridge. And Universal Bridge is your very own method of interacting with user debit card and credit card. And so I'm going to show a little bit of what it looks like in the Connect button. It's actually already in every single Connect component. So if I come here I can see some options: send, receive and buy. I click on buy, I'll be able to see this kind of very clean interface and say, you know what, I want to buy 0.1 ETH.

I can go ahead and hit continue here and it will give me options. Do I want to purchase it with some tokens I might already have in my wallet, right? So in other words I can swap currencies, or do I want to do a traditional on-ramping with credit card, with debit card, depending on my provider, right? I can do that as well and say, hey, I want to purchase some 0.1 ETH on the Taiko network and I'm going to be paying however much money in that currency depending on my provider, right? We have a whole list of providers that we support along with this, so that way you guys have global coverage. We have over 150 different countries that we support through this on-ramp process. So as you guys build out your applications, as you guys start selling services and goods to individuals, you can use this payment flow directly within your app. And so that's just in the Connect component, we also have standalone components for this as well that make use of a couple different things, right? So we went over the on-ramping, we went over the traditional, hey, I'm a user, I come into an app, I need to get some funds.

And again, code snippets abound everywhere for you devs so that way you guys can get up and running the fastest way possible along with these preview environments as well. And so you can say, hey, cool, I've on-ramped. But what if I want to do things like physical goods, right? We have examples for selling physical merch, right? What that might look like. What if you want to do traditional contract interactions after a payment flow has completed? Again, we have these examples for you all with our transaction mode. So transaction mode allows you to actually kick off a smart contract function once payment is done, right? So really, really handy for NFT mints, really handy for DeFi apps who want to onboard users into a kind of claim-and-stake ecosystem, right? Maybe they claim 10 tokens in your currency and they want to stake it, they can do that through this transaction method. All one click.

And again, we have a whole list of backend APIs you guys can use to make this UI completely headless, so it fits your brand and your imagery. Really, really cool here. And that's just the Connect component, right? We have our backend stuff with Engine, and Engine you can test out some of the functionality here so you can see things like, hey, what if I want to do air drops? What does that look like? What if I want to just do traditional mint NFTs, right? And then again, every single piece here has code snippets for it. It tells you exactly how to use it and how to work with some of our tooling. So with Engine specifically, it's all API endpoints, right? I hit an API endpoint and I'm transacting on blockchain. Notice I don't have to worry about gas, notice I don't have to worry about signatures. All of this happens with a simple API call, which really, really speeds up development. And especially if you're a Web2 dev coming into Web3, this is going to be your jam. This is where you're going to see, oh, you know, Web3 is really, really much simpler than I thought it was. Engine is going to be your toolkit here.

And so finally in our infra layer, we're going to have our things like indexer, right? So what does it look like to get some data on-chain? So we have things like I want to get events, maybe I want to get events by contract, maybe I want to get events with a specific signature, right? So as we all know events on these contracts are things like mints, burns, transfers. You can emit your own event. You can say, hey, I have a podcast event that I want to emit on a contract every time I call that function. It will emit and then I can specify that event to query against. Really cool. I can get things like, hey, just give me transactions, just give me all a list of transactions that happened on a chain, right? So for example here, we'll go ahead, we'll select Ethereum, we'll run it here, and so this is actually querying our own indexer-like product where we mimic the state of a chain and it says, okay, hey, here's a whole bunch of transactions, right? Really raw, really cool, I can just make some dashboards out of this, I can use this data to make some other business decisions out of it, which is really interesting and helpful. And again, you can block it out through things like hey, I want it to a specific contract, specific signature, you can do things like NFT information, wallet information, ERC-20, ERC-721, 1155 information. All of this, really, really handy.

And so that is our indexer. Now, you might be thinking, well, this is crazy, right? This is kind of a lot of stuff, a lot of different tools. Always go in, play around with this stuff, it's easier once you start clicking it yourself and start messing with it. You're not going to be able to break anything here, don't worry about it. Just know that with Universal Bridge, if you do complete these payment flows, these are live, so you will be transacting with real money. So just be aware of that, that's the only kind of heads up I would give you all. And there's another tool you guys can use. There's in this world that we live in, you all know, hey, AI is probably top of mind for you. It is most likely going to be how you develop in the future, right? Before, I used to use Stack Overflow, how do I do XYZ, right? Look at the Stack Overflow post, read the comments and all that, and now I use AI. I go to an AI and say, hey, how do I do XYZ, and it spits back a whole bunch of different options for me. And so we actually have our own AI agent called Nebula. And so Nebula is our most powerful AI for the blockchain. It lets you read, write and reason on-chain and it understands every transaction, every contract on any EVM chain. So remember Thirdweb is EVM chain focused and so all of our tooling is EVM chain focused.

And so what does this mean for Nebula? Like why would I choose Nebula over things like Claude, which is a very, very good code helper? So why Nebula? So again, these generic LLMs, right? OpenAI, Anthropic, they don't really know about blockchain state, they don't know about blockchain data. They know about blockchain as a concept, but if I were to say, hey, let me know about the latest transaction on a blockchain, they're not really going to know, right? So they don't have latest on-chain data, they don't have the ability to execute transactions on-chain. Nebula knows about all this. Nebula is trained on not only Thirdweb docs and tooling, but also on on-chain data. So I can actually go into Nebula and we'll do a little bit demo right here and I can say, hey, tell me about the latest transaction. Cool, tell me about what happened in that transaction. Who sent what, who did what. Tell me about, or can you help me build out an app that does XYZ using Thirdweb, and it will tell you or recommend some tooling for it. Can you create a smart contract for me? Can you actually perform some actions on my behalf?

Guess what, because Nebula is not only an AI LLM, but an AI agent, that means that you can actually execute Web3 transactions. You can create smart contracts. I can say, hey, I want to transfer funds from X wallet to Y wallet, and Nebula can help you with that. It will actually prompt you to do signatures in your wallets, right? As you go through these execution flows. Really, really cool and powerful stuff. And so I want to show you all, if you go to thirdweb.com/nebula, there's going to be a button there that you can do to try it out. And you're going to see an environment like this. Now, this environment isn't Nebula itself, but it utilizes Nebula in a playground-like environment. So when you see this, this is very much an LLM environment, but you can also do things with Nebula, again, all backend API focused, and create anything you want. So I'm going to say, hey, can you tell me about the latest transactions on Ethereum? Right, we're going to go ahead and let this run here. And as it goes, we actually, I want to show a, or talk about a use case of this. We actually had a gaming company come and use Nebula for some of their NPCs, right? Really, really in the world of AI, really common step. And so because they use Nebula, these NPCs can actually start transacting on-chain versus just spitting out information.

And so here, in the world of Nebula, you can say, hey, the latest transaction on ETH at the time I asked, it gave me the transaction hash, it gave me all the details, it understands the value of ETH that was sent, it understands gas. And then it even says, hey, this was just a simple ETH transfer. Someone transferred from one address to another a certain amount of ETH, right? And then it's like, hey, do you want to know any other specific details? Do you want to break it down further, which is interesting? Nebula is going to be, I think, your guys' new LLM. It's anytime you guys have a question about blockchain, what's happening in the state, about how to create contracts, about how to interact with them, and then finally, actually interacting with these contracts, right? Actually going through and saying, hey, I want to send funds, hey, I want to create NFTs, hey, I want to create a contract, you can actually just ask Nebula, right? When I grew up, it was just ask Google, right? Now it's just ask Nebula. You can absolutely, for any of your Web3 related queries, throw it in Nebula, ask it this question, ask it to perform a function for you and you guys are going to be at the bleeding edge of Web3 development.

And so that is the whirlwind tour of Thirdweb. That is high level everything we have to offer. Narb, I'm not sure if we have any questions. I know we had a really, really quick and intense session here, so I want to make sure we have time for that.

Oh yeah, we do actually. On the topic of Nebula, Shivam asks, is it available as a mobile app or is it just desktop?

Right now, it's just desktop, but a mobile app is actually a really great idea, and I think I'm going to bring that up to the team because we actually have our playground as a mobile app. And so I think it makes sense to make Nebula as that. So you know what, Shivam, if you see a mobile app of Nebula in the coming weeks, it is because of this comment right here, dude.

There you go, there you go. There you go, Shivam. Let's see, let's go. Right on, right on. And who better than yourself, the mobile app developer himself? You know, we actually have, I think the closest we have is we actually have Nebula in some Farcaster apps that we have. So while we don't have a standalone Nebula app, you can absolutely go to Farcaster on your phone and check it out through there as well.

Awesome. And just curious, are you able to plug in Nebula to a AI code editor like Cursor or Windsurf if you're doing smart contract development, for example?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we actually, let me share my screen here. We actually have a whole bunch of different plugins and integrations with it, right? So you can do things like OpenAI and Eliza for some plugins. But we also have MCP servers. So if you're looking for things like Cursor and you want to put Nebula in as an additional context, you can do that as well.

Right on, right on. And I guess, seeing as we are at time, and I mean Thirdweb is already fully featured, feature-packed, is there anything that you can tease around the roadmap for Thirdweb? I guess maybe mobile app is in the pipeline for Nebula, maybe we'll see, we'll see. But anything else you kind of want to tease on?

Yeah, our backend API, Thirdweb Engine, is going to be much, much more friendlier to work with, much more accessible. So keep an eye out here in the next coming days on that. Engine, like guys, I can't overstate enough, like Engine is going to be your driver, it's going to be everything you guys use for blockchain interactions, right? Who doesn't love a simple API call instead of having to mess with all of these low-level transaction calls? You guys are going to be using Engine and it's going to be much, much more accessible to you guys. So honestly within the next day or two, be on the lookout for this announcement because I want each and every one of you here who listens to this podcast, even after, even after you come back because I know you guys are going to be doing it on your drives to work, you're going to be doing it, you're going to be listening to this podcast as you work out, things like this. Engine is going to be your entry into blockchain development. Anyone, and I mean anyone, Web2 developer, anyone learning to development who looks at API calls are going to be able to develop on blockchain. This is it, guys. This is how you build your Web3 businesses and your Web3 products. So be on the lookout for that announcement.

Beautifully, beautifully said. And I think that's a great way to end this off here. And I guess one last question before we do end off, if people are looking to dive into Thirdweb, are there any particular tutorials or anything that you would recommend them taking up?

Yeah, so for anyone looking into Thirdweb, right? thirdweb.com is going to be your go-to place to start. But we also have, and I'm going to share my screen here, we also have a really, really great YouTube channel. Lots and lots of videos, over 267 videos, all detailing how to work with Thirdweb, how to create these kinds of applications and environments. Any question you could probably have is already answered in these YouTube videos, if not, guess what, we have a great team of support. So yeah, I would highly recommend our YouTube channel, it's really, really good.

Awesome. And there you go, there you go, folks. And with that, I just want to thank you again so much, Joe, for taking the time to come on. You went through what seems like a million products in about 30 minutes, so I applaud you on that. And definitely folks watching today, listening today, there's no better way to get started, or the easiest way to get started with Web3 is Thirdweb. So definitely check out the platform. All the links that are relevant to that are in the YouTube description below. And for people who have been watching us live today, I am posting a link for you to be able to claim your on-chain collectible for indeed watching us live. So if that's your thing, definitely check that out. You'll have about an hour or so to be able to claim that. And yeah, I just want to wish everybody a very happy Friday, happy weekend wherever you may be, and we'll catch you back here for another great episode of DevNTell. All righty, cheers.