Turning Projects into Paid Dev Gigs with Contribo feat. Founder Aleksa Stojanović

GM GM. Welcome to what's going to be another fantastic episode of DevNTell. So if you didn't know, DevNTell is a 30-minute podcast held every week, allowing founders, hackers, and anyone in between an opportunity to come on the show and showcase what they built. And today I'm ecstatic to welcome Aleksa Stojanović, who is the founder of Contribo. So if you didn't know, Contribo helps organizations turn real projects into paid gigs and connects them with developers who can prove their skills by building instead of just by resumes. So if you stick around for today's episode, you'll get to meet Aleksa and learn all about Contribo. All right, let's do this thing.

GM GM, welcome to the show, Aleksa. I am so excited to have you on, man.

Thanks, man. Thanks for the invitation. It's a great privilege and GM to everyone.

Yeah, 100%, 100%. I know a lot of people were very interested in tuning into this particular episode because we're a developer show, developers have a lot of projects, and yes, everyone is very keen to learn how they can turn those projects potentially into paid gigs with Contribo. But I guess before we get into all those awesome details and what you have prepared for us, perhaps you would like to give an introduction about yourself for folks.

Yeah, sure. Maybe I do a short introduction. So I'm Aleksa. I was kind of studying software engineering and I was always kind of interested in like how we can change the systems that we live in, like gain more sovereignty, you know, create it more equally so people are more kind of, you know, feel like in balance, right? And then I started studying software engineering as extension. And then at some point I discovered like a book of like 'Mastering Ethereum' and then my friend saw me actually reading it and he said like, 'Wow, you're interested in that. Maybe I can find you like internship.' And I was like, 'That's amazing, right? I would like to build those things. That's the best way how I can learn.' So it started like there, like Web3 journey, right? And then yeah, I was working at a centralized cryptocurrency exchange for five years where I was handling Ethereum wallet management systems and developing ideas there. And then after I like finished with this chapter, I started doing things on my own. Then I met a lot of people from post-capitalist projects, like different views on like how economics should be, and that all keep me excited, right? And I continue building and I guess now we are here.

Yeah, I mean everyone's journey is very unique and certainly yours is no exception. I guess before you kind of got into Web3, was that your first foray into technology? Just curious like what inspired you to get into the field of tech in the first place.

In the field of tech, yeah. At the first place, I think it started really stupid because I was like in high school with this girlfriend of mine and she said like, 'You're doing well in informatics, why don't you try to, you know, enroll into software engineering?' And I was like, 'Okay, I'll give it a try, right?' And then I found more and more love for it as I went into it, right? Because I found out abstraction and then like scalability, those kind of things were really interesting for me, right? Distributed systems. And I was like, 'Yeah, sure, I'm going to enroll, right?' So I haven't programmed before. I did some small kind of challenges and then the friends taught me some things. I had a lot of hacker friends back then, right? So they taught me. But like since I enrolled into university, it started like developing seriously, you know? Yeah, so I build the skills there, like core foundation, and then worked on so many different projects in order to understand like what is the field that I really like.

Awesome, man. Yeah, everyone benefits from a little bit of a push sometimes, right? So your girlfriend back then pushed you in the right direction for sure.

Yeah, I'm grateful to her. Like yeah, because she noticed this. I was having those issues because I was like, 'Okay, I like philosophy, I like anthropology, I could maybe do even mathematics, something like that.' And then she said it and it clicked for me immediately and I was like, 'Okay, I want to give it a try.' So yeah, kudos to her.

Indeed, indeed, kudos to her. And you mentioned it, you were working at a centralized exchange for about five years. Was there something during that time period where you basically had this shift of mind where you're like, 'Oh, I don't want to work for somebody anymore, I want to build my own thing.' Is there something that kind of inspired you to take that leap of faith?

Yeah, that's actually a great question because as I was working, I got lot of support there, like just to say that, is like people actually in the company requested like from team leads that I have some time to research, right? And kind of introduce a new ideas. And that was kind of part of my like work day. It was like, 'Okay, we do development for let's say four, five hours and then, you know, he can research and bring those ideas.' So this was always interesting like for me. But at some point I just realized that in order to find myself properly, right, to kind of find my gifts, I need to start developing my own ideas. And then you have to manage it like at that time was like, 'Okay, how do I remain sustainable while doing it?' And then at some point I completely like was focused on those exchange ideas, right? And the things were getting great, but I kind of missed the scale that I wanted to kind of introduce, right? So then I just stopped, right? I said, 'Okay, I think I need a bigger challenge, bigger inspiration.' And then I started meeting people. I was at the EthAmsterdam hackathon where we build the solution for Lens profiles. Like they could be controlled by DAOs, so the DAO vote and decide like what is posted back then. And I made amazing people who and one of those guys that I met whose name is Jesse, he asked me like, 'What is the thing that we could tweet that your country needs right now and that we can form organization around?' And I was mind blown. And then like yeah, I just continued in this direction. Then we tried to build a startup, it failed, but nonetheless it was a great learning experience.

Awesome, man. Yeah, like I said, everyone's journey is very unique and interesting and life has this funny way of pulling us one direction or another. And yeah, man, sometimes the answer is just founding a company and just doing what you love.

Yeah, man, yeah. I was doubting it a lot, right? And then I said like, 'Okay, if I'm not going to step into this and I think it's my obligation like to the people, to the, you know, universe, like to find a way to provide those visions or ideas, right, so I can contribute and we can build a better world, then no one's gonna do it instead of me.' And then that's when I made a kind of switch. And yeah, I haven't looked back since.

Awesome. Yeah, good for you. Kudos on you, man.

Yeah, and thanks to all the people who actually supported this because there are many people that actually did it. I was thinking of this and it's like, it's never you are never alone actually, right? There are so many people, so many hidden things that are done for you that you're not even like, you know, perceive at the moment. So yeah, I just want to express gratefulness to the whole Web3 community and broader.

There you go, there you go. Thank you and probably there's a subset of those people watching today seeing your success. So yeah, kudos to y'all. And I think this is a good segue getting into exactly what Contribo is. So what's your what would you say is your elevator pitch for what Contribo is?

Yeah, that's a great question because I kind of circled around many different ideas, right? So I wanted to kind of build a mixture again of sustainability plus some enablement for the long term vision, right? At the moment to speech, it's like I wanted to experiment with this approach where we can democratize opportunities for developers as I went through many different situations where I saw people who maybe cannot represent themselves in the best possible way or maybe don't have a strong networks, right? They didn't have an opportunity but they are great builders, they are kind of struggling, right? And then I started exploring this direction and then I met some people who actually provided gigs without asking like or going into seven hiring rounds, right? To actually contribute, right? Those people were saying like, 'Okay, are you interested in this? Yes, let's give it a try.' And I was like, 'Okay, this model I think is quite amazing and it's gonna elevate the people.' And right now we are there. So we basically try to enable modularization of work, right, by you describe the work there. That's that's kind of feature that I kind of built and it's not ready yet but I'm gonna show you. So you describe what what needs to be done, right, and then we create automatic modules out of it, their milestones based on those modules, their payments based on those milestones. So we try to kind of democratize opportunities by enabling a broader access, right? But still it's a tradeoff so there have to be mechanisms, right? We still want to reward quality contributions, you know, those kind of things. So yeah, I'm not sure if I gave appropriate and like precise description, but that's where my mind is at right now.

Yeah, and it's certainly not a it is a can of worms to say but there's a lot that's wrong with the current tech hiring process. At least in my mind and obviously in your mind as well.

No, I'm just like I'm always kind of hearing this, right? And that gives me kind of some validation support which I really kind of need at the moment because there are some people who actually really like the idea and they sign up, there are like 30 plus developers signed up, I speak with them occasionally, right? And then everyone notices there is a problem with hiring. So I'm just thinking maybe kind of how do we solve it, right? And I provided one approach. It still remains to be seen if it's gonna gain a traction. If not we can kind of iterate. But I'm I'm just kind of curious and I'm actually kind of happy that you that you mentioned it as well, right? Like lots of people are saying that hiring is is a bit broken and I'm on a mission to understand how we can elevate it.

Yeah, 100%. Just from my perspective, at least in today's landscape with all the great opportunities that AI's brought forward, I feel like candidates and and companies are kind of at the stalemate where candidates are using AI to submit resumes and cover letters and then the company is using AI to filter these, so you kind of have AI trying to AI kind of competing against each other and then yeah.

Right. Thanks for saying this. I had the same impression and I was like, 'It shouldn't be like that,' but okay we are at that stage right now.

Yeah, I mean it's just a it's just a natural kind of thing that I'm sure will be solved eventually. But just curious like are there any other big issues that come top of mind to you in the hiring process and some of these and some of these things has Contribo ended up fixing?

Yeah, so right now we got like one gig. That's that's the so I'll answer the first question. There is there is like one gig that we kind of enrolled, right? It's from Collaberry organization that kind of tackle the equity distribution problem which I find really interesting as well and I think it's kind of aligned with what I'm trying to to develop over the long term. So they provided the gig and then I just kind of posted about this gig. There were so many developers and then I said, 'Okay, this one is a pilot, right? We have to do it. I I don't have to vet people, but there is a mechanism, so you have to basically provide something until some date, right? And then if it's good we review it, you continue, right? That's that's the mechanism.' But I run it kind of manually at the moment, right? And I'm kind of quite curious how this is gonna end up because like okay, this one gig is around like mid complexity size. More complex things would be a different, right? But I'm really curious about how this experiment is gonna end up and how I can present it to the world so they can see actually how we can change the hiring, right? So for from my perspective is like at least my personal experience and I heard lots of people is like, 'Okay, you go, you speak, you speak with an AI, many different like parts of the hiring process, and then at the end maybe you're not even you invited to actually show what you can do, right? If if it's building you can you can prove it, right? Maybe you cannot speak it, maybe it's not really clear for you, but you deserve at least to try, right?' And then I think that's what I fixated on because I think that's where the kind of the biggest opportunity lies. But yeah, people are saying many many different things about their problems is like ghosting on the one side, right? Not knowing what went wrong, then like four interviews and fifth one you are ditched so kind they they feel they they waste the time, right? And I was like, 'It doesn't have to be like this,' and I have to find a way to prove it.

Hell yeah. Yeah and yeah I'm really keen on seeing how Contribo works and I think this is a great another great segue to bring up the demo that you have for us. You want to get into that?

Yeah, sure. Can you see the I'll try sharing. Okay, so okay, great. Okay, so right now it's quite simple, right? Because I'm kind of finding like I most of the time I speak with with the founders, right? Trying to understand their problems and trying to resolve how we can resolve like resolve this and and bring this process forward, right? So right now there is this like 'I'm looking for the opportunities' flow where you basically see the gig that is live right now and you can apply which is really simple because you have to kind of sign up with the GitHub. In case we don't find an email where we can contact you, you basically just type it and there you go, you are like, you know, you submitted your application. What what I wanted to present here which is kind of still yeah, developed is like that I developed this new gig kind of approach where you try to describe what needs to be done, right, and then for for this like presentation I chose the example of like, 'Okay, I would like to introduce streaming payments to my DAO, right.' And then you see that there is kind of, 'Okay, you you have those milestones suggested like, okay, it can be Sablier, it can be Superfluid, you need admin UI to to be kind of developed, right, and then there is like on-chain events seeing that needs to be build, right.' So that's kind of first level of of modularization. And then from there you can go and type like what is the repo URL, like we can do any test because it's it's a prototype that I'm developing. Figma as well, like that that's what might be useful for you as a developer. And then there is like let's say some gig description that we can choose, doesn't matter, let's let's do this, right. And then additional notes is like 'Please take into account both front-end and back-end repositories,' let's say. Right. So this is basically like just example or like prototype to basically streamline the creation like modularization of work. There are acceptance criteria which we are experimenting with right now. Three that I found really interesting are like pull request URL, which is kind of, 'Okay, there is actual work that happened.' There is Loom demo, which I found really interesting, it's kind of simplification because you cannot explain everything in the Loom demo, but it's really good for people to actually can see, validate, maybe if you choose to validate the worst case approach in some scenario, it's gonna be presentable there, right? And then readme documents updated. Those are the basic ones, you can add criteria. So for for the Collaberry gig, the thing that we discovered is basically like, 'Okay, please take into account backwards compatibility, right, because we don't want a new gig that's gonna be deployed there to actually break the previous users, right.' And you can add it, right. And then standard one, which is like, 'Okay, there is a proposed reward, you can change it, and you can say like 4,000, right. You can say that this is a medium milestone project, you can say, okay, it needs let's say one month to be developed, like streaming for your DAO, right.' And then you can see the preview how how would developers see it. You can see that you did all the final checks like you added the repo, you added the context, you set the timeline and reward, and then there is a publish gig button which is basically making it live so the other developers can see. Right. That's the other thing. And then the thing I forgot to show here is that I experimented a bit and it's kind of proving useful in Collaberry like specific gig because they requested, like they do the equity distribution, right, and there is there is some calculation on like how much every contributor earns, but the payments are still done manually. So this gig should basically introduce automation of those payments using Gnosis Safe. So organizations can say, 'Okay, I would like to pay in stablecoins, I would like to pay in my own DAO token, right, as a representative of equity or something.' Or you can choose their team points which is native. And then you have those kind of modules that that I kind of manually at first developed so we can streamline what needs to be done for the developers. Right. So yeah, you see the progress as soon as the module is finished, the pay-out's gonna happen and that's for like every every other module, right? There is a developer who is who is who has applied and and is like running right now. If the modules are not finished in a specific timeline, then then they're going to be open for other people to actually contribute, right? So yeah, I'm showing local version of my app because this is the prototype for like streamline. But yeah, it's gonna soon be live, so that's what we have in terms of of technology right now.

Awesome, man. Yeah, this looks very clean and snazzy. We have a question from the crowd. Dayana asks, 'This sounds really great, but if it's collaborative work with more developers, how do you make sure people are also able to collaborate respectfully, not also doing tasks?'

Not also doing tasks. So I'm not sure if I understood the question. So basically the question is how do we introduce more than doing tasks, right? Or

I think she was hinting at when you create a task, it seems like it's one task per developer. But is there if there was a situation where multiple developers could take say a high level work item and split the task between them, how do you make sure there's that collaboration aspect there?

Yeah, that Okay, thanks Dayana for the question. I think it's great. I experimented a lot with this, right, before I even started enrolling things and I have a few prototypes what I have taken like so far because I'm I'm kind of limited on a resources and there was like a time bound for this gig. It was like, 'Okay, I want to enable as much people as possible to give it a try, right, but at the same time I want to make sure that we respect this gig and their timelines and their budget, right.' So what I did, that was that this is not a direct answer to this question, but I'll come to it. So what I did is like, 'Okay, there were like four modules as we presented here, right, and then the thing that I did is like, okay, I broke it even into more modules, right. And in the end, like I don't have this prototype here integrated, but at the end it looked like you have smallest pieces of work and you have specific timeline for that. You contribute, like you make a pull request in that timeline, the next the next module unlocks, right. You don't, it becomes open.' So that's how I wanted to kind of enroll it and I wanted to reduce like vetting for me because there was like maybe 10 applications and if I go through everyone, screen everyone, I didn't have a resources to do it, right? But the question was about collaboration, right? I think it's it's a great one. I'm still thinking of it. I think that basically developers can split the work alongs themselves. So I described this modularization mechanism and I think if you have properly modularized project which is a bit complex but I'm working on streamlining it, basically developers can choose and have aggregate points at some like you finish two modules, there is aggregate above and then they collaborate there and then they continue like that. So it's kind of a bit recursive. I'm sorry if I haven't answered this properly, but I was thinking a lot about like one of the problems with these approaches is like people are saying that you know I don't want to do the work which some other developer will do as well, right? And I don't want to provide that as well. I want to evade those scenarios so we kind of make some kind of collaboration, everyone chooses a modules, right, and then they cohere at some higher module and collaborate.

Awesome. Great question, Dayana. Yeah, 100%. And great answer. I guess a question from my end is I feel like a gamification of this might be an interesting thing to think about. Assuming that most of this work might be open source, the tasks that people create, I find maybe having some sort of leaderboard with like some points being in public could help drive more people to not abandon tasks that they take up and could even create a greater influx of interest in people picking up tasks. Have you thought about that or have that on the roadmap?

Thanks for the prompt, for the prompt and for the question and for the suggestion at the same time. I heard it from the developer that actually took a gig and he told me, 'I would really like to have a profile, right, where there is a badge which says, okay, I developed this and those the skills were needed, I did it great, right.' And I was like, 'Of course, I I would like to develop it.' First of all, I haven't thought of it in this direction, like people like achievements, motivation, those kind of stuff, right? That's the thing I'm learning. I I run a Contribo through kind of game perspective. There were like different game designs that I ran it. I haven't had the time to develop it fully yet, but definitely the reputation was important part of it, right? And then if we if we can make it appealing to to people, right, in a way, it would be amazing to to develop. So yeah, thanks for saying that. I think it just has to go higher on priority list because yeah, people people would love it and yeah, if you have any suggestion like how would you gamify it, I I would be curious to learn.

Yeah, for sure. In my mind I I feel like just a simple point system of 'Hey, I completed a task and I got a badge,' and then the more or or some set finite amount of points for each task. Maybe some of the bigger tasks that take a longer time you get like a multiplier or something. But basically you get this kind of like 'Oh hey, I completed this many things.' It could benefit a person who's looking to get hired for a full-time gig, for example. You have a hiring manager or someone that takes a look at this leaderboard and says, 'Oh, this person consistently kind of gets their work done, they have this track record of completing these tasks, they have this proof,' right? They can look up the proof of the different things that they've accomplished and the different skills they had to use. So yeah, it's a whole whole kind of thing on its own, but yeah, it would be cool to explore.

Yeah, but thanks for saying it. I think it's honestly amazing. Especially because you said consistency, right? And I was looking at this perspective a lot because one of my hypothesis was like it's not about, you know, CV or words or stuff, you know. Like maybe someone doesn't have a skills right now. Maybe you can afford someone who has. Maybe you can't. In case you can't, like you can always try to rely on people that are consistent, right, and then build the skills from there, right? So it's it's really important. And yeah, thanks for saying this. Honestly, I'll just invest more time into building it appealing and to actually represent the developers properly, which is one of my goals. So yeah, thanks. I appreciate it.

Yeah, 100%. And I guess if you can, like what's your what's your North Star vision for Contribo and is there a roadmap you can share with us in terms of what people can expect from the platform?

Yeah, okay. So the roadmap I can share like what I'm thinking of as the next steps, right, because as I do, I speak with people, I try to find more gigs, I try to evaluate, right, so it shifts a bit. But the North Star would be in in one sentence, I would like to eventually see like more fluid work, right, where people can actually align and do things that they find interesting at the moment. So for example, if you'd like to learn more about the AI, well here is the opportunity, right? You can get some reputation, you can learn plus you can sustain yourself, right? And another another approach I was thinking of and I think could be quite interesting is like I would like to see more builders as entrepreneurs. That's kind of mini game that they can run, right? So they can actually choose many organizations that they really resonate with, they contribute there, they get some like viable, let's say, resources like fiat, but still they get an equity as well because they took a risk, right? And then those kind of those two directions are kind of ones that I feel over time more and more like, you know, engaged into so I I kind of explore how to build there. But in order to arrive there, yeah, there needs to be kind of sustainability there, we have to solve specific problems so we get some resources so we can continue building this direction. But that's what excites me actually.

Awesome, man. Yeah, and sounds like you'll have a lot of work on your hands, but it's for an amazing amazing purpose. So yeah, keep on going, man. I know you had some had some questions for me and I want to give you some time so we can chat a bit. So what do you have for me?

Thanks for saying that. Yeah, I'm just curious because I like your vibes, I was curious like what is what are the things that you find inspiring? What are the projects that you would like to see going forward? What is the world that you are imagining in terms of like collaboration or future of work or just whatever you find inspiring, I would like to to know more.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, of course. Yeah, I would say in terms of existing projects or projects that are coming up, to pump the tires of Developer DAO a little bit, we have this amazing RPC called DDCloud coming up being developed by crypto.eth. And to talk about inspiring, he's taken that kind of project from the start and he's taken the initiative to kind of build that from scratch. And he's very meticulous in the details around all the little code optimizations that are possible and whatnot. And it's really been awesome to see him take it from kind of an idea and take initiative on it and build it up to what's eventually going to be what I think is an awesome project run through Developer DAO itself. So that I would say is quite quite an intriguing project I would suggest a lot of folks keep an eye on. And just from the perspective of somebody that might be kind of on the fence of kind of taking that leap of faith and doing something out of their comfort zone, I would say kind of look at that as as something to to take inspiration from, because a lot of people they have a lot of great ideas, but for whatever reason something holds them back and they never kind of execute. So I always say just take that leap of faith, if you're watching and you're on the fence and you think something is a great idea, just build it. Build it, put it out there just like Aleksa did. He believed in something or believes in something and he took that leap of faith and he's built Contribo and it's looking like a very promising project even in the pilot form that you have. So I guess that's kind of a long-winded answer, but that's kind of some something that was top of mind.

That's a beautiful answer actually. And I appreciate that you shared it and I think it's important to hear. If I make like kind of continue on it, because it's like I met a founder recently that told me like, 'Okay, I would like to build this,' and I said, 'Okay, this resonates with me, right.' But he immediately took the highest possible dream and started to going and speaking with people about that and he found some traction, right? While I kind of struggle because I was like, 'Okay, I want to have a validation and sustainability first so I can expand to go to the large vision.' So what you said I think is a perfect, you know, for people to motivate them and like dream big, try big, do whatever you like and just build it out. And then the amazing things will happen, people will support. So yeah, I think that's amazing advice.

Yeah, it's just taking that first step, right? It's almost it's almost kind of like if you if you have that kind of fear in you of of taking that leap, it's kind of a signal that 'Oh, like you should do it.' So yeah, right. So so if anybody's watching here today and you are on the fence about starting that next project, just do it. Just do it, you have nothing to lose other than not seeing it out. So and yeah and I guess as we kind of come to time here, is there anything any any thoughts, any wisdom perhaps you'd like to share with folks on the call today or any final thoughts?

Yeah, I think what you shared honestly was something I was I was feeling before even this podcast because I realized like how trying to look at the things from a kind of minimal viable angle actually stop me, right, and didn't allow me to develop this larger idea which might actually find the traction or something before, right? So I think it perfectly aligns with what you said, right, and I would just yeah double tap on that and say to people like please yeah if you want reach out to me, reach out to Narb, I'm quite sure he is open, right. Let's speak if you need inspiration. If you just reach out to people, you know, you're gonna get the support. It's an amazing world we live in actually when you when you actually, you know, just become a present and start interacting. You discover that everything is possible. So yeah, that's from my heart. Well said, well said. Yeah, indeed it is. And yeah with I think that's a great spot to kind of leave off. And again crowd if you're watching and you want to get in touch with Aleksa, we will have those details for you in the description. They might not be there now, but we will do a fast follow and add those details around Telegram and whatnot really soon. But with that Aleksa I just want to thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to come chat with us. I want to thank you all for like first of all inviting me then going through this session and for the questions. It's a great pleasure and I would say a great privilege to be here. So yeah thanks a lot. My pleasure. All right everyone. Just want to wish everybody a very happy Wednesday wherever you may be and we'll catch you back here Friday for another great episode of DevNTell. Until then have a good one folks. See ya.