Direct to Wallet Trading with SideShift.ai feat. Andreas Brekken

GM, GM. Welcome to what's going to be another fantastic episode of DevNTell. So, if you didn't know, DevNTell is a 30-minute podcast held every week allowing founders, hackers, and anyone in between the opportunity to come on the show and showcase what they've built. And today, I'm ecstatic to welcome Andreas Brekken, who is the founder of SideShift.ai. So, if you didn't know, SideShift.ai is a direct-to-wallet crypto exchange where users can trade over 200 plus digital assets across multiple different blockchains. So, if you stick around for today's episode, you'll get to meet Andreas, learn about SideShift, and how you can get started using the platform today. All right, let's get into it.

GM, GM. Welcome to the show, Andreas. I'm ecstatic to have you on, man.

GM. Uh, thanks for having me on.

My pleasure, my pleasure. Yeah, I'm- I'm really excited, uh, for our audience to, uh, learn- learn a little bit, uh, about you. I know you- you- you're quite, uh, the, uh, crypto Web3 OG, uh, researching your- your background, and, uh, SideShift is a very interesting and exciting product, especially for the- for the cryptopunks, uh, uh, watching today. Um, but, uh, yeah, I guess before we get into all things SideShift, uh, would you like to give a introduction about yourself?

Yeah, I mean, I just first wanted to say that, um, I've heard about, uh, Developer DAO for ages, and, uh, so the- the only reason I don't hold my DD NFT right now is because we, uh, we have a developer on the team, uh, who's really, really into hackathons and just like Web3 community. So, I actually passed it on so they could get access to, uh, the Discord and so on. But I guess after this episode, maybe we'll have to start- have to get a few more. How's- how's the DD NFT token price doing?

Is it more affordable? It used to be pretty expensive.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it- when it first came out, um, it was right when the- that big- big jump in NFTs, that craze kind of started with like, uh, the- the, um, the Bored- Bored Apes kind of going for like millions and- and whatnot, so, um, even though- even though the NFT itself was free, um, the gas was still very expensive. Um, but, uh, nowadays, yeah, now- now it's kind of cooled down, um, it's not as- not as crazy anymore. Uh, so certainly, uh, yeah, if- if, uh-

Well, if- if somebody needs to reach me and they don't want to use X, then I'm still in the Developer DAO Discord. I just said hi in the GM channel, so you can get me there.

Excellent, there we go. There we go. If you want some, uh, want some Q&A with Andreas after the fact, there you go, just hit him up on Discord.

On the Discord.

Excellent, man. Uh, yeah, uh, so, uh, very keen to, uh, kind of learn a little bit more about your, um, your background, um, as, uh, someone who's been in the space quite a bit. Um, as far as I know, um, you started your own, uh, exchange called Justcoin, uh, back in, I think in 20- 2013 it was, and then you joined Kraken. Um, yeah, just- just kind of curious to- to hear kind of the background story around that.

Yeah, I got- I got started in Bitcoin, uh, around like 2011, so it was pretty- pretty new. There were not many people in it. There's a few- the only people in it before that into Bitcoin were people who were like, um, really hardcore libertarians. The people who moved to New Hampshire, people who go to the libertarian conferences like in Acapulco, like the Freedom Festival, all this. They were in super early. People, um, uh, yeah, all the libertarians, and some- some other people like Max Keiser, if anybody's ever heard of him and these. But then, uh, the second wave of people were people like me, who were people who were just early adopters of tech, because it was posted on a website called Slashdot, which, I don't know if people read anymore, but it's like- it's kind of like boomer Hacker News, uh, kind of thing, where people, they actually posted about Bitcoin on there, articles about it. So, I just- I just saw people writing about Bitcoin, uh, here and there, and slowly started buying some. And by 2012, um, I just thought crypto sounded like the most amazing thing, because to me, there was only Bitcoin back then, right? But to me, it just seemed like PayPal, but they can't block your account, you can just send your money to anybody, you don't need to be like a merchant or something. You just install literally a wallet on your computer, and you can send and receive with no limitations to anybody. Um, and back then, I didn't understand you can send any amount. Like today, this is natural for us, right? You go on the- you go on a block explorer, you see people are moving like millions or tens of millions of dollars around on, uh, DeFi. Uh, I mean, try doing that with PayPal, in fact, try doing that with your bank. Just forget about it, it- it's not happening. So, even back then, it's like 2012 is so long ago, I totally- I saw that this was something different. Uh, I didn't think so much about the value because it was going up and down too much.

But then, I understood that if you- if you in a Bitcoin wallet, you could click the menu and like to debug or something, and it would open up the console, and you could type RPC commands, which is like make a new deposit address or send funds. So then, I understood you can remote control the wallet using any software, like programmed with anything that can speak JSON-RPC. Um, and that just blew my mind, that you, um- there was no barrier to entry, you can just do this yourself. So, I started just making random stuff like, same as everybody, I make dice sites, video poker casinos, um, all this kind of stuff where you could just play with Bitcoin. Um, and then, yeah, as you said, the next project is I looked at the few exchanges that existed, Mt. Gox, Bitstamp, uh, at the time, and I thought, how hard can it be to make this? Uh, and the answer is it's really easy to get started, and it is incredibly difficult to run it at any type of scale, not getting hacked and tracking balances and trades correctly. Um, but it was a great time, and- and, like you said, I sold that exchange, uh, later, and then I joined Kraken as an engineer, when there were like 10 people, uh, in the office, I think. I'm sure it's in the thousands by now. Um, and I worked for- there for 2 years, and I worked closely with the founder of, uh- of Kraken, uh, Jesse- Jesse Powell, who's a super crypto OG, hardcore libertarian, and like a really- really positive person for the space, and who's like always fighting the good fight against the government and the banks for us, so people should follow him.

Um, yeah, after Kraken, I took a bit of a break. I said I would never, uh, do an exchange again, because it's such a- it- it's just a pain and, like, you don't sleep because of all the money you got- you have to be watching all the time. And, um, and dealing with banks is extremely troublesome. They are, um, they are a real piece of work. They- they will, they are, um- yeah, just- it's no good. And of course, once you deal with banks, you got to deal with the government, because, uh, that's how it works. So, uh, so I swore never to make an exchange again, at least not one that had a bank account.

So, uh, yeah, so, uh, my next move is that I started learning about sidechains for Bitcoin. The one we were talking about at the time was, um, was drivechains, and there's one from Blockstream called Blockstream Liquid. So, I learned about these, and I learned, um, that it will become necessary to have services that let you move from the different sidechains. And back then, that was like- nobody had heard about this, there was nothing called bridging. So, I made SideShift, which is shifting like swapping between sidechains. This is where the name comes from.

And, um, yeah, uh, and I was really lucky with the timing because suddenly, as you know, DeFi pops up, and there's like, you know, there's more chains than users, as we like to joke around, and everybody needs bridging, and people also need swapping between, uh, all kinds of coins, including stables. Uh, and often people want to swap stables between chains. So, the timing was really, really good, and we've obtained a lot of loyal users who want to do stuff you can't do on- on a DEX easily, like, uh, BTC to- well, I hope nobody did that, like BTC to Melania or something, but, um, those kind of trades. So, that was the super quick history of, uh, how I got here.

Amazing, man. Yeah, that's quite- quite the journey, and, yeah, certainly seems, um, every step you took, um, you kind of learned something, applied something, and then the next thing you took on, um, being that early at Kraken, yeah, like you mentioned, it's- um, it's very-very, uh- uh, like from the outside world, an exchange is like, 'Oh yeah, it's just like, oh, you hold some money, send some money here and there,' but no, people- people underestimate, uh, vastly how complicated it is, um, just obtaining the proper licenses, moving the money around, and having to, like you said, just think about, 'Oh no, am I going to get hacked tomorrow? Like, what's- what's it going to- what's going to happen?'

Yeah.

Um, and, uh, I want to kind of double-click into- into some of the- the themes here. Um, so, uh, as I understand, SideShift is very, um, privacy- self-custody oriented. I guess, um, those principles, were they basically, um, entrenched in- in your product given your prior experience with all the exchanges and whatnot?

Yeah, the- the custody part, definitely. We- we call the- the swapping you can do on our website, we call it direct-to-wallet because it's a bit easier to understand, because if you think about what it takes to go buy a shitcoin on Binance, if you actually list the steps, it's a lot. You know, you got to, if you have an account, you got to register, and get that email they send you with that code, and then there's 2FA, and then you got to upload your documents, and deposit, and wait, and, most of the time, probably swap to an intermediate asset like a stable, and then again, add your deposit address, verify the deposit address, initiate the- the withdrawal, and so on and so on. So, um, there's just- there's too many steps, right?

You'll- most of the time, you're just going to say, 'I'm- I'm just not going to bother.' Um, but the- the bigger risk is that because there's so many steps, and of course, the exchanges love this, you're just not going to take the money out. You're not going to do it. You're not going to self-custody because it's designed in a way that there's a big deposit button, but you can never find the withdrawal button. Right? Because they- they, um- they profit from having your money, uh, on the exchange, and they also retain you as a user. So, um, so the incentives are a bit misaligned because you, as a crypto user, you should not leave your money on the exchange. Not your keys, not your coins. Uh, you should definitely hold it in your own wallet, uh, just because of all the exchange hacks we see. So yes, it is true, I was- I had absolutely no intention of starting another custody business where you're sitting on millions of dollars, and you're a huge target, um, that kind of thing.

And as for the- as for the privacy, no, not really. And the- the reason for that is you, as soon as you interact with any entity, any, uh, DEX, any CEX, anything, you lose privacy because you're leaving these breadcrumbs, right? So, um, using- using a swap or a bridge, uh, like SideShift or other, it- it can give you a sense of some privacy, and it can give you privacy against somebody who's looking into it who's very unsophisticated. But someone who's a bit more sophisticated, they will be able to, to trace where your money is going by cluster analysis, where they know- where they match amounts and times and so on, which is why you'll find that mixers often let you randomize amounts a little bit, or split them out, and also cause delays. But because SideShift is not a mixer, it's not really a privacy solution, uh, because we cannot promise that, we don't even have these features. Um, so, uh, yes, there is always some privacy that's better than just, um, doing it on, uh, Uniswap, but it is not perfect, and it's important that people, especially developers, are aware, uh, that this kind of tracking has become very sophisticated.

Yeah, 100%. And, uh, I think it- it's kind of grown to that out of necessity, uh, like you mentioned, that there- there's been so many hacks. Um, it's, uh- for, I mean, for- for some, I guess, obvious reasons, some non-obvious, um, crypto, uh, blockchain, and- and smart contracts have been a really big target of many, um, bad actors, just trying to basically make a quick buck, and it's even easier now than it was a year ago because AI's- AI's so much better, right?

Now, it's, um, uh, it's been a really, really rough year plus. I don't know, when do you think the tipping point was? Was it like, was it like ChatGPT sort of like 4.0 or something? Like, it- it just hit this level, you know?

For- for me, I really saw, um, uh, a shift, uh, at least it got me to- to purchase, uh, a Claude Max plan. Um, uh, right, uh, last December. I think, um, I forget which exact-

3.4, 3.6, Opus.

Yeah, it was like Opus 3.5, 3.6 or something. That, yeah, I think, personally from that point, I really saw a big, um, exponential bump in just the capability of all these things, and like everyone- kind of got better at the same time.

Yeah, and I've heard now, like, I've never tried this, but I've heard that, um, the- the LLMs are so good at, like, static analysis that you can- you can send just raw binaries, and they might be able to find bugs. Uh, and then so you can send compiled code, and they might be able to decompile it and find faults. I haven't verified this. Uh, if I'm wrong, I'm sorry. But, um, but I mean, it's an arms race, and there's so many more white hats than black hats. It's just, I think this came as a bit of a surprise to everybody, so the black hats got a bit of a lead. But I think that's going to change really quickly, and hopefully at the end of the day, I think we're going to end up with just way better smart contracts. Uh, because the white side, us, we have the tools to, um, to reinforce smart contracts, because there's only- only so many bugs can exist in a smart contract, you know? Um, so we'll- we'll find them, and especially in the software libraries, like they use OpenZeppelin and similar so on. So, I'm really bullish on Web3 security, but the interim has been extremely painful and, um, and that's sucky, for sure.

Yeah, yeah. Uh- uh, understatement. Uh, yeah, it's- it's got to- it's got to be, uh, chaotic like this to start, and then I think, yeah, there'll be- there'll be an evening out of- of the hacks and, uh, tightening up of the security on the contracts.

And did you- uh, did you see that Zcash, they claim they have a new shielded pool? Cuz Zcash is a bit complicated because it's a fork of Bitcoin where they just added on different mempools that are called shielded pools, which are kind of sidechains in some sense, that's not the best way to call it, but the money lives in a separate space. And they claim that the newest pool, which is where- I guess they're proposing it where the newest, where if you shield your funds today, they will end up there. They're claiming that it, uh, will be completely formally verified, uh, not to have any leaking of, uh, money, so money cannot be created from thin air or stolen. Formally verified as in like, math it out. And I suspect they've been using- I suspect they've been using AI tools very heavily, because, uh, writing that kind of software, I think is, um, used to be too difficult for most of us, but I think now it's going to- I think that's going to really pop off.

So, that's, uh, another dev advice is like, see if you can make stuff that's formally verifiable or learn how to do that, because I think it's getting get huge.

Yeah. Um, we actually had a- a episode last week, uh, with a founder who's- who's working on just that, so, uh, perfect complementary- yeah, perfect complementary, uh, episode.

Oh, cool. Cool. I'll go back and watch that.

Yeah, yeah. Hell, yeah. Um, and, uh, yeah, I guess, uh, since we're on the- the topic of developers, um, and, uh, I guess, uh, the SideShift app, um, is for kind of the retail side, people who want to trade, but, um, as I understand, um, there's also a REST API available, as well as a- another product called SideShift Pay, um, that helps people, um, basically build their own checkouts, if I'm not mistaken. Did you want to just kind of, uh, go over that and tell the devs watching today how they can, uh, kind of plug in?

Yeah, so, um, yeah, so SideShift is integrated, uh, in- in other wallets already, like if you use Trezor wallets and do a swap in there, one of the popular options is we'll- route, well, we'll do the swap on SideShift, directly from your Trezor wallet. And that was integrated just using our REST API. And the docs are on sideshift.ai/api. And you don't need- you don't need any credentials or fill out a form or, uh, API key or anything, it's just- you can just go ahead and use it. So using that, you can just, uh, using the API, you can- it's just a JSON REST API, you can, uh, yeah, request quotes, um, and fulfill the swaps from any application. You obviously get kickbacks, uh, which is how- which is how it works in this industry, which is super generous, uh, the deal we give on that. And that's how we're integrated in Trezor, Edge Wallet, bitcoin.com wallet, and, uh, a bunch more. So it's open to everybody, so I- I hope some of the- the listeners will go to sideshift.ai/api, and it's all there. And we have a group free on Telegram where you can ask anything you want, but, uh, it- it's really, really easy to figure out.

Awesome. I love me some easy docs. And, uh, yeah, uh, those resources will be in the description of the podcast, so definitely check that out, um, if that is something that interests you.

Um, and, I guess, uh, since we're on the- the programmatic, uh, side of things, um, this year, at least, um, I guess, yeah, since the beginning of the year really, um, we're seeing a real big drum up of, uh, this big theme of agentic commerce. And, um, I think agentic commerce, um, isn't going to scale with traditional payment rails because the traditional payment rails were built for humans. Um, humans can have N number of agents, so can companies. Um, so that's going to be quite the bear on on that, uh, on that infrastructure. But, we have this, uh, great thing called, uh, blockchains and crypto, um, which seems like just a white-glove fit on, um, powering all the commerce actually here. Uh, so as someone who's been, um, in- in the blockchain space and- and payments, um, uh, payments, uh, area, uh, quite a bit, I guess, um, just curious, kind of get your take on like, how, um, crypto and- and AI is going to converge, and, um, where you kind of see things playing out.

Yeah, uh, I remember really well when agentic, or you can say just, machine-to-machine payments, when that started, um- when I first started hearing about it, because that was the Ethereum white paper, um, and Ethereum yellow paper, which came out before the ICO, which was when was that? Let's find that out. In 2014 was the ICO. So, uh, Vitalik actually wrote quite a bit about this, and the reason I got interested in Ethereum for the ICO was that I envisioned we'd have just a ton of machine-to-machine payments, because it just makes way more sense. It- it is not, uh, it's not easy or convenient or it doesn't scale to use anything like Venmo, PayPal, Visa, whatever. It's just- anybody who's looked at that stuff, you- you don't want to do machine-to-machine like that.

So, to me, it was a no-brainer, and also envisioned smart contracts paying other smart contracts for- for things. So, um, and that could be anything. I was, man, I was going super far out there, I was thinking that, uh, if you're driving a- a car, or a self-driving car on a super trafficked road, then they could skip ahead of each other in traffic with micropayments, because not everybody has to come- has the same urgency. So, I was thinking all kinds of things like this. Um, but now that we're seeing more agents, like most of the LLM-based agents now, it- it's become even more relevant because there's just- there's no convenient way for you to plug a credit card into an agent, and also like are you going to make a virtual card for each one? Is that your plan? Whose name is it going to be in? Is it going to be your name? What if you- what if this is for, like, you and a friend of yours, or- or maybe it's for your 200 best friends in Developer DAO, whose card is it going to be? Um, and, um- so that- that doesn't scale, and also virtual cards do not work well, they're not well accepted even. So, that doesn't scale, and it's the same issue we've had, um, when we got, uh, DAOs, which is if the DAO doesn't have an office, it can't form a company, it doesn't have a CEO or director. So, can't get a bank account, no bank account, no cards. It doesn't work. So, we have to, we have to use Web3 payments, crypto payments.

And with agents, I just think it- it just makes it even easier to understand that this is the direction, because like you said, there's just going to be so many agents, it- it's going to be- it's not only the KYC that's going to be difficult, or the ownership, or lack of ownership, or anonymous ownership, it's going to be just the pure scale of it, because at this current pace, um, it could be that, um, people like me will just have like 10 different agents, one for each project, and we want them all to have a budget to be able to pay for stuff, to pay for tokens or their own hosting, um, any online services. So, uh, I think that's going to be big. And, um, we, I mean, we looked at this HTTP 402 payment standard that's, uh, kind of happening now, it doesn't- it doesn't really apply well to SideShift, I had a look at it. Um, but there are people using it, so the first one I've seen is a project called Venice.ai, which is, uh, privacy wrapper- it started as a privacy wrapper for LLMs, so you could use OpenAI without getting doxed, ChatGPT. But now, I think they have their own hardware as well, and it's- the founder is Erik Voorhees, who's a super Bitcoin OG, also libertarian, and if he says they burn the logs, that there are no logs, uh, maintained and no records, then that is true. Like that guy is, um, outstanding character. So, I noticed in the Venice docs that you can actually choose to, um, to pay with streaming payments basically per request using HTTP 402. I didn't use it yet because I wanted to do it in, it was Hermes, uh, or OpenRouter or something, and they didn't have support yet. Uh, but they might now. So, uh, so I think it's going to be super exciting.

Yeah, yeah, 1,000%. Um, I probably think it's probably Hermes agent that has support. From what I've noticed, OpenRouter, um, they don't have, um, that many blockchain integrations, at least the official ones, it might be community ones they have. Um, but, uh, even- even still, um, just the agents we're talking about, they're just like programmatic- um, programmatic agents, like on your computer. We haven't even got gotten into like robotics yet, right? Cuz like, you can take an agent, put- put it in, put it in a robot, right? It's like robot goes and does your groceries, pays- pays another cashier with- with its-

Yeah, when- when can we buy these, like- not necessarily the Tesla one, but I'll take like the Temu one, you know? When- when are we getting the ones we see online? You know, they are- they're kind of small, but they look like they can do stuff. Uh, I wonder when- do you know when that's going to be available if you can pay, uh, a little bit?

Yeah, I- I think- I think we'll probably get the first like consumer, uh, or retail consumer level one probably within the next 3 to 5 years, my- my guess, just at the pace everything is- is going. It's going to be so- I'm going to, man, I'm like, uh- I, have you heard of the vacuum cleaner called a Roomba? That was the- that was the first, my first robotics project, and also my introduction to real-time programming, sensory-based programming was with a Roomba, um, which could have been almost like 20 years ago. So, if you give me a robot that can walk around, uh, then, I can do anything. Exactly, yeah, yeah. Think about the time- the time you'll, uh- you'll save and have to, like, live your life and not have to do all the medial tasks.

Well, also the fun you can have, uh, hacking this stuff, is going to be incredible.

Oh, absolutely. Uh, soon enough, soon enough. Um, and, uh, yeah, I get, uh, one of the questions I- I had for you is, um, uh, for the people who are bearish on, uh, crypto and Web3 in general, what would your words of advice be, but I think this whole episode has kind of been kind of that, it's like how can you- how can you stay bearish on the space after- after- after this episode?

Yeah, I'm- I'm going to give a bit of a flippant answer, which is that if you're bearish now, you're way too late. Like, the time to be bearish was when Melania Trump launched a token. At that point, you should have just sold everything and pivoted into AI. If you're still in crypto now, I'm sorry, but you're just going to have to stay here, because, uh, we're- we're way past the- we're, uh- I would say we are so close to- to the bottom of this bear market that if- if you look to walk away now, um, you're, uh, uh- your timing is not amazing, because this- this is a good time to just, um, for developers, just look what is new and- and what is going to be popular.

We've had a few false starts on crypto AI, the intersection hasn't been clear yet. Venice claims to be the intersection, I- I need to look more into that, because to me, it seems more like, um, it's just actually an AI service where you can pay with crypto, which to me, is not an intersection so much. It's a great payment option, but I think we still, um- and of course, the obvious one which everybody started is, uh, decentralized, uh, decentralized LLM, right? Which there's been a lot of that, um, maybe it'll work out, but there's going to be other stuff. So, if somebody is a bit bearish now, then I think what you need to do is find- just find like, what's the new meta? What's going to be the new meta? Some people are betting on privacy, as we can see, see with, uh, Zcash getting attention again. Um, what's the other one? There's like the Zeano thing, which I haven't looked at. Um, there's, there was another one, I forget. There's a few more privacy projects, so that could be a new meta. And there could be some intersection on there, like, do you think- do you think agents will have a stronger need for privacy, so there'll be more- there's something there with agents and privacy coins? Or, um, or like you said, robotics, that will look a lot like the LLM agents, so it'll be about payments, I think. I don't- I don't think, I don't think you need your physical robot to be using smart contracts so much, maybe I'm wrong, but there's going to be so many interesting stuff. So, if you're a developer looking for a job, just look for companies in that intersection. Worst case, if it doesn't hit, you'll meet a lot- lot of amazing people, right? Best case, um, it's going to be a huge hit. Uh, or, uh- or start your own, uh, venture in that. Getting funding in a bear market is super easy, if you just reach out, because there's no good projects to invest in, so the investors are like trying to find something because they want to be ready before the bull market. Um, yeah, that's, uh- that's most of my advice, like the- the new bull market never looks like the old one, there's going to be new metas, this is just how it is, uh, because we always move ahead, because it's technology. So, you just got to figure out what's new, and easiest way, it's just like sit around on Discord, sit in the Developer DAO Discord, be on X, stuff like this, and you will notice what the new thing is, and don't buy any meme coins.

Yeah, well said, well said. Uh, and, uh, listen to this podcast, as this is- this is where a lot of the alpha comes- comes on, uh, with early builders and whatnot. Um, but, uh, yeah, with that, uh, Andreas, thank you so much for taking the time out of your busy day. Um, just before we conclude, what's the best way for folks to, um, keep up to date with SideShift, yourself, uh, and- and get involved?

Oh yeah. So, um, uh, you can follow me on X, my username is a bit complicated, it's abrk_n, but, uh, I'm sure you can link it somehow in the episode, or you can just Google my name. And you can also follow SideShift on Twitter, which is @SideShiftAI. And if you are a developer looking for a job, then you should go to sideshift.ai/jobs. We are always recruiting engineers. Um, yeah, that's it.

Excellent, and, yeah, uh, I know, uh, the job market is, um, uh, very popular with, uh- unfortunately, with a lot of folks, um, looking for work, but, at the same time, a glass half full, it- it's a new opportunity to- to start something amazing. So, um, if you're somebody looking for a job, yeah, definitely, uh, hit up, uh, Andreas and SideShift. Um, and, uh, with that, uh, again, Andreas, thank you so much for taking the busy- your time out of your busy day to come chat with us today. I really enjoyed our chat, I'm sure our audience did too, and, yeah, I'm sure only amazing things ahead for SideShift. Likewise. Um, and with that, I just want to wish everybody a very happy Friday, happy weekend wherever you may be. I think it's the last, uh, week or couple of weeks of FIFA, so definitely enjoy, uh, the knockout rounds, and, uh, we will catch you back here for another great episode of DevNTell next week. All righty. Have a good one. Cheers.